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> <channel><title>Comments on: Unable or unwilling?</title> <atom:link href="http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling</link> <description>Faith strengthened through evidence.</description> <lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:39:04 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Wes Widner</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-638</link> <dc:creator>Wes Widner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 22:34:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-638</guid> <description>Will do, thanks!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will do, thanks!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: BigHouse</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-637</link> <dc:creator>BigHouse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 22:12:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-637</guid> <description>You&#039;re unbelievable.  You ALREADY took the bait and told me how I arrived at my current position posts ago.  Now you&#039;re apparently backing off those claims, which is is good because it was arrogant and absurd.
I&#039;ve read the several other threads on your blog that went long and every one was with someone who ultimately arrived at the conclusion that you are an intellectually dishonest and mean-spirited debater.  Add me to the list. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#039;re unbelievable.  You ALREADY took the bait and told me how I arrived at my current position posts ago.  Now you&#039;re apparently backing off those claims, which is is good because it was arrogant and absurd.</p><p>I&#039;ve read the several other threads on your blog that went long and every one was with someone who ultimately arrived at the conclusion that you are an intellectually dishonest and mean-spirited debater.  Add me to the list.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Wes Widner</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-636</link> <dc:creator>Wes Widner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:57:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-636</guid> <description>I&#039;m not going to take the bait in telling you how you&#039;ve come to accept or reject what you believe and disbelieve. However based on the laws of logic I can safely say what I have said and that is that your acceptance of one truth-claim is an explicit rejection of competing truth-claims. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not going to take the bait in telling you how you&#039;ve come to accept or reject what you believe and disbelieve. However based on the laws of logic I can safely say what I have said and that is that your acceptance of one truth-claim is an explicit rejection of competing truth-claims.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: BigHouse</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-633</link> <dc:creator>BigHouse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:31:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-633</guid> <description>You think I&#039;m going to hell.  You can&#039;t bring yourself to believe it&#039;s because I made a misjudgement.  So YOU tell ME how I arrived at my conclusion, that it&#039;s a willful rejection of the truth.  This allows you to believe your God is just in sending me to hell.  It&#039;s quite simple, yet your blinders are so dark you can&#039;t see it.  Maybe someday you will.
You told me above that I was playing God but you tell me you know better than I how I arrived at my own conclusions based on a few posts on a message board.  You&#039;re a piece of work, Wes. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You think I&#039;m going to hell.  You can&#039;t bring yourself to believe it&#039;s because I made a misjudgement.  So YOU tell ME how I arrived at my conclusion, that it&#039;s a willful rejection of the truth.  This allows you to believe your God is just in sending me to hell.  It&#039;s quite simple, yet your blinders are so dark you can&#039;t see it.  Maybe someday you will.</p><p>You told me above that I was playing God but you tell me you know better than I how I arrived at my own conclusions based on a few posts on a message board.  You&#039;re a piece of work, Wes.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Wes Widner</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-631</link> <dc:creator>Wes Widner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:23:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-631</guid> <description>&quot;And you create a nice little strawman by refusing to accept how I came to my current position on your god, and it replace it with your &quot;rejection&quot; nonsense, which is just plain untrue.&quot;
Of course I reject your assertion that boils down to the claim that &quot;if you carefully study this, you&#039;ll come to the same conclusion I did&quot;. I think you have allowed your bias override your epistemic faculties such that you do not believe in God not because you lack the epistemic warrant needed but because you lack the desire to accept the necessary conclusions that would result from accepting the belief that God exists and that you are not He.
In short, I do believe you are wrong about not only the facts but also about the process by which those facts are obtained and how those facts relate to the subject (specifically the existence of God).
I also find this phrase to be very strange &quot;you cannot logically assert that I deserve eternal torture&quot;. Logic does not provide us information about good/evil nor does it inform us about the existence of not of eternal torture. These are all categories of thought you have no basis for and so attacking me on them is intellectually dishonest at best (and a shameless ploy to ride this conversation even further off the rails at worst).
&quot;I feel sorry for you for needing twisted logic and presuppositional apologetics to be able to sleep at night believing people that are unlike you deserve eternal torture.&quot;
Is that an appeal to emotion or what? That whole phrase makes absolutely no sense. I would love to see you try and parse that out but I am afraid that the very attempt would just be too painful to watch. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;And you create a nice little strawman by refusing to accept how I came to my current position on your god, and it replace it with your &quot;rejection&quot; nonsense, which is just plain untrue.&quot;</p><p>Of course I reject your assertion that boils down to the claim that &quot;if you carefully study this, you&#039;ll come to the same conclusion I did&quot;. I think you have allowed your bias override your epistemic faculties such that you do not believe in God not because you lack the epistemic warrant needed but because you lack the desire to accept the necessary conclusions that would result from accepting the belief that God exists and that you are not He.</p><p>In short, I do believe you are wrong about not only the facts but also about the process by which those facts are obtained and how those facts relate to the subject (specifically the existence of God).</p><p>I also find this phrase to be very strange &quot;you cannot logically assert that I deserve eternal torture&quot;. Logic does not provide us information about good/evil nor does it inform us about the existence of not of eternal torture. These are all categories of thought you have no basis for and so attacking me on them is intellectually dishonest at best (and a shameless ploy to ride this conversation even further off the rails at worst).</p><p>&quot;I feel sorry for you for needing twisted logic and presuppositional apologetics to be able to sleep at night believing people that are unlike you deserve eternal torture.&quot;</p><p>Is that an appeal to emotion or what? That whole phrase makes absolutely no sense. I would love to see you try and parse that out but I am afraid that the very attempt would just be too painful to watch.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: BigHouse</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-630</link> <dc:creator>BigHouse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:21:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-630</guid> <description>You did better to leave the name-calling behind this time, but you still avoid the argument altogether.  And you create a nice little strawman by refusing to accept how I came to my current position on your god, and it replace it with your &quot;rejection&quot; nonsense, which is just plain untrue.
I may be wrong about the facts, which I have stipulated on numerous occasions.  Because you cannot logically assert that I deserve eternal torture for that makes you need to change my position to argue against and still hold that your god is just.  And you support this by inserting your opinion on how overwhelming the evidence is.
I feel sorry for you for needing twisted logic and presuppositional apologetics to be able to sleep at night believing people that are unlike you deserve eternal torture. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You did better to leave the name-calling behind this time, but you still avoid the argument altogether.  And you create a nice little strawman by refusing to accept how I came to my current position on your god, and it replace it with your &quot;rejection&quot; nonsense, which is just plain untrue.</p><p>I may be wrong about the facts, which I have stipulated on numerous occasions.  Because you cannot logically assert that I deserve eternal torture for that makes you need to change my position to argue against and still hold that your god is just.  And you support this by inserting your opinion on how overwhelming the evidence is.</p><p>I feel sorry for you for needing twisted logic and presuppositional apologetics to be able to sleep at night believing people that are unlike you deserve eternal torture.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Wes Widner</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-629</link> <dc:creator>Wes Widner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:39:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-629</guid> <description>Just because you do not think such a being exists does not make it so.
Yes, I am arguing from my &quot;own theistic box&quot; just like you are arguing from your own atheistic box. The fact that we are biased to the conclusions we believe are right says nothing about whether we are actually right or not. In other words, the strength of our beliefs or the bias of our dispositions does not have any bearing on the facts. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because you do not think such a being exists does not make it so.</p><p>Yes, I am arguing from my &quot;own theistic box&quot; just like you are arguing from your own atheistic box. The fact that we are biased to the conclusions we believe are right says nothing about whether we are actually right or not. In other words, the strength of our beliefs or the bias of our dispositions does not have any bearing on the facts.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Wes Widner</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-628</link> <dc:creator>Wes Widner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:36:37 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-628</guid> <description>You do reject God, there is really not an epestemic neutral ground here. Unless you smuggle in the unwarranted and hidden premise that disbelief in God is somehow a &quot;natural&quot; state. Even then you are making a positive claim and a negative claim simultaneously about two opposing beliefs.
If you continue on your present course of unbelief (and I pray you don&#039;t), God will not judge and condemn you based on a mere error in judgement but on a willful refusal to accept what the evidence overwhelmingly points to.
Additionally, your last statement really shows your epistemic bias here:
&quot;If you can actually take a step out of your box and analyze this and respond without presupposing the existence of your god then I welcome your response.&quot;
Do you mean that the only way I can understand you is if I accept your presuppositions and reason according to YOUR atheistic/naturalistic biases?
Also, righteousness has nothing to do with this conversation. Further more, righteousness can mean nothing in your system so why even bring it up? </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You do reject God, there is really not an epestemic neutral ground here. Unless you smuggle in the unwarranted and hidden premise that disbelief in God is somehow a &quot;natural&quot; state. Even then you are making a positive claim and a negative claim simultaneously about two opposing beliefs.</p><p>If you continue on your present course of unbelief (and I pray you don&#039;t), God will not judge and condemn you based on a mere error in judgement but on a willful refusal to accept what the evidence overwhelmingly points to.</p><p>Additionally, your last statement really shows your epistemic bias here:<br
/> &quot;If you can actually take a step out of your box and analyze this and respond without presupposing the existence of your god then I welcome your response.&quot;</p><p>Do you mean that the only way I can understand you is if I accept your presuppositions and reason according to YOUR atheistic/naturalistic biases?</p><p>Also, righteousness has nothing to do with this conversation. Further more, righteousness can mean nothing in your system so why even bring it up?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: BigHouse</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-627</link> <dc:creator>BigHouse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:17:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-627</guid> <description>Step back and think about.  I don&#039;t believe in your god.  I don&#039;t &quot;reject&quot; him in the sense I know he&#039;s true but turn my back on him.  I just don&#039;t believe he is true.  I arrived at this conclusion through a sincere analysis of the world around me and the evidence of his existence.
Of course, I could have reached the wrong conclusion.  Your god deems that people like me deserve to be eternally tortured for this error in judgement.  This in no way, shape or form is consistent with a being that is all-loving and just.  This incohernecy is one of the many reasons I don&#039;t believe he is true.
If you can actually take a step out of your box and analyze this and respond without presupposing the existence of your god then I welcome your response.  If you&#039;re going to call me names and label me with bad words to make yourself feel better about how righteous you are to be on the right side, then don&#039;t bother. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Step back and think about.  I don&#039;t believe in your god.  I don&#039;t &quot;reject&quot; him in the sense I know he&#039;s true but turn my back on him.  I just don&#039;t believe he is true.  I arrived at this conclusion through a sincere analysis of the world around me and the evidence of his existence.</p><p>Of course, I could have reached the wrong conclusion.  Your god deems that people like me deserve to be eternally tortured for this error in judgement.  This in no way, shape or form is consistent with a being that is all-loving and just.  This incohernecy is one of the many reasons I don&#039;t believe he is true.</p><p>If you can actually take a step out of your box and analyze this and respond without presupposing the existence of your god then I welcome your response.  If you&#039;re going to call me names and label me with bad words to make yourself feel better about how righteous you are to be on the right side, then don&#039;t bother.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: BigHouse</title><link>http://reasontostand.org/archives/2010/06/11/unable-or-unwilling/comment-page-1#comment-626</link> <dc:creator>BigHouse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:17:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://reasontostand.org/?p=1360#comment-626</guid> <description>&lt;i&gt;Then why comment on what you believe to be a meaningless post?  It seems to me that if you think the concept of God is incoherent at the outset that you would forgo any other contingent arguments such as miracles and concepts like good and evil (which all require God). &lt;/i&gt;
The entirety of the thread isn&#039;t meaningless, just your last comment to me.  How can I be blasphemous and exhibit hubris towards a being I don&#039;t think exists?  You&#039;re arguing in your own thesitic box, not hearing what I am saying. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Then why comment on what you believe to be a meaningless post?  It seems to me that if you think the concept of God is incoherent at the outset that you would forgo any other contingent arguments such as miracles and concepts like good and evil (which all require God). </i></p><p>The entirety of the thread isn&#039;t meaningless, just your last comment to me.  How can I be blasphemous and exhibit hubris towards a being I don&#039;t think exists?  You&#039;re arguing in your own thesitic box, not hearing what I am saying.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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